COMensarations
Thursday, July 17, 2008
Problems in the Blogosphere
The proverbial Crushing of Dissent continues.
There’s an item up at ‘Armed and Dangerous’ that caught my attention. You can read it here.
I replied to it. But the blog operator deemed it ‘inappropriate’ and deleted it.
When I protested, he deleted those protests as well.
In my opinion, this is nothing more than the usual, “We’ll let the people see what we want them to see.”
Well....
...here is my initial response to this character.....
TO: Armed and Dangerous, et al.
RE: Interesting But Slanted
You cite a lot of interesting items, but you (1) did not provide much in the way of attribution and (2) gave only on perspective.
In response to your comments I determined to be Thomas Jefferson, I offer these….WITH attribution….
The liberty enjoyed by the people of these States of worshipping Almighty God, agreeably to their consciences, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights. — George Washington
What do you think George meant by “Almighty God”?
It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible. — George Washington
Where does George’s idea that the Bible is important to good governance come from?
Let us raise a standard to which the wise and honest can repair; the rest is in the hands of God. — George Washington
Why is God supposed to take up the slack?
Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear. — Thomas Jefferson
Why is it you truncated the citation from Thomas Jefferson?
I have sworn upon the alter of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. — Thomas Jefferson
Why would Thomas Jefferson ‘swear’ upon an ‘alter of God’ if he didn’t believe in God?
I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever. — Thomas Jefferson
Why should Thomas Jefferson fear for this country that God might be ‘just’ and not be ignorant of what the people do?
The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time. — Thomas Jefferson
How is it that Thomas Jefferson believes that God gave him ANYTHING?
God helps them that help themselves. — Benjamin Franklin
Franklin apparently believes in God. Why is that?
Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. — Benjamin Franklin
I won’t argue with that. How about you?
Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God. — Benjamin Franklin
Why should an atheist obey God?
Admittedly, this is just a quick search of my archives on these fine gentlemen. I’m certain that I could find more, with more research.
So, I propose that your premise is false and your data is biased.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Figures don’t lie, but liars figure.]
I’ll leave it up to you to decide if it was so offensive as to warrant deletion.
UPDATE Lousy Communication Skills [171544 Jul 08]: Seems that ‘esr’ is the operator in question. And he/she/it claims to have sent me an e-mail regarding this kerfuffle. However, as of this time, no such e-mail has been received. The question becomes, are they a liar as well as a ‘crusher’?
And, before I forget, I’ve captured the thread’s entire contents every time I posted something there as PDF files as proof of my claim of deletions. You can see them shortly after I posted the items. But you can’t see them after a while....
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Chuck, I also post sometimes on Eric’s blog, and while I don’t agree with him at all in many points (as a quick search for “Adriano” on the comments will reveal) I will not argue his right to remove any and all comments. It’s his blog, not yours or mine. He decides, as you do here. It might seem undemocratic, but blogging has very little to do with democracy. It might seem arbitrary, and it is, but it is also his decision. If you don’t like it, post somewhere else.
We aren’t talking about offensive here: I’ve said plenty of stuff that certainly didn’t soothe him, and it hasn’t been deleted (yet). It’s about being on-topic. For whatever definition of the term Eric chooses.
Depriving bloggers of the ability to moderate their own discussions leads only to inane babble.
on 07/17 at 03:11 PM -
TO: Adriano
RE: His Right“I will not argue his right to remove any and all comments.”—Adriano
I’m not denying his ‘right’ to delete comments he doesn’t agree with.
I’m just pointing out his deceitful approach to public discourse.
Do you deny he is being ‘deceitful’? Or, at least, not ‘open’?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
on 07/17 at 06:35 PM -
P.S. In light of his claims to have sent an e-mail to address his discomfort—an e-mail as yet not received here—I call him a bald-faced liar.
What would you call someone who did such?
on 07/17 at 06:36 PM -
P.P.S. Additionally....
...I’ve encountered this sort of behavior in the past. And the vast majority of the people who behave like this are atheists; who can’t stand the idea that someone can speak about God in a cogent and effective manner.
Hope that helps.....
on 07/17 at 06:38 PM -
Chuck, there’s no “right to public discourse” on blogs. There’s only what the blogger allows. If you happen onto a blog handled by a person who doesn’t like dissent, he’ll delete your posts. Now, I’m not saying it is nice, or right, only that it happens. It’s normal, so the best thing to do is get over it. Welcome to the Internet, where people are mean.
Into the particular subject: at least some of your quotes are figures of speech, like the “beer” quotation from Franklin. I wouldn’t use them to prove this particular point. I’m an atheist, and even I sometimes say “For Christ’s sake!” and “Oh God” without making a fuss of it.
As for the mail that you should have received, I won’t get into the subject. It’s a matter between you and him.
And as for the PPS, I’ve found plenty of Christians (of the Catholic persuasion) who didn’t want people speaking about God in a critical manner, cogent, effective way, so I guess we’re even on that. My girlfriend is one of them.
on 07/18 at 04:36 AM -
TO: Adriano
RE: Rights?...there’s no “right to public discourse” on blogs. There’s only what the blogger allows.—Adriano
Please show me where I said there were such rights. Otherwise, please refrain from trying to put words in my mouth.
And you obviously are missing the point I’m making. That point is that in his own little kingdom, esr would just as soon kill you than discuss something with you. And, if I’m not mistaken, a lot of others on that thread are beginning to catch on.
Hope that helps....
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Neither esr nor YOU have indicated where I was amiss in my understanding of his initial publication.Why IS that?
on 07/18 at 04:59 PM -
TO: Adriano
RE: Talking Trash“I’ve found plenty of Christians (of the Catholic persuasion) who didn’t want people speaking about God in a critical manner, cogent, effective way, so I guess we’re even on that.”—Adriano
I don’t mind if people damn themselves with their own words. Case in point esr.
But I AM required to point out their error. As I was attempting with esr. But he decided to ‘kill’ me instead of listening. And that’s another problem of the personal and eternal sort for him. Not for me.
Hope that puts thinks into their proper perspective.
RE: Oopsie!
“My girlfriend is one of them.”—Adriano
You have one of two choices; convert or flee. This is the voice of experience speaking, vis-a-vis X#2, a Scientologist.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Those who have ears, let them hear.—Some Wag, around 2000 years ago.]on 07/18 at 05:11 PM -
P.S. You can call me any sort of MoFo you like here. You can embarrass me to your hearts content. I will not ‘kill’ you. Nor delete your comments. I MAY if your comments are particularly offensive to the more genteel here, move them to a place where people can click on the “moved comment” link and see what it was that was moved to the ‘zoo’.
There’s something of a difference in approach. Don’t you think?
on 07/18 at 05:13 PM -
Chuck,
We’d never delete your stuff at American Creation (that is, unless, of course, you did something to deserve deleting other than trying to argue in a civil manner).
“It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible. — George Washington”
Washington never said it. This is one of the infamous “unconfirmed” that is bogus “quotations.” Google “unconfirmed quotations” and you’ll understand what I’m talking about.
These Founders weren’t Deists but “Theists.” I hesitate to call them “Christians” given they tended to reject most if not all of the tenets of orthodoxy like the Trinity.
They qualify as “Christian” in some kind of broad sense, like the Mormons. They weren’t orthodox Christians of the Nicene Creed type.
Jon Rowe on 07/27 at 09:07 AM