COMensarations
Friday, May 29, 2009
The Lost Boys of College — 090529
A discussion moved from on site, to this site.
This is a response to a comment over at Inside Higher Education Lost Men on Campus.
In the thread there was a lengthy comment by someone going by the nom des blogs of A Man.
My reply would have been overly long so I decided to move the reply to this location and provide a link from that site.
To read the reply, click on the word “MORE.....”
TO: A Man
RE: Getting the Point, Here
You were making a point about fear and courage using Tom Wolfe’s “The Right Stuff.” I never mentioned Wolfe.—A Man
No. YOU never mentioned Wolfe’s book. I did. I never said you mentioned The Right Stuff.
You brought it up as an illustration, and I thought it missed the original point about education--the need for men and women to grow, to be able to modify orientations on the world, which can be terrifying, which can require emotional bravery metaphorical, I think, with going into combat.—A Man
Yes. I used it to illustrate something. Something that YOU were missing in your previous comment where you indicated that someone in what amounted to a ‘Diversity Training Session’ could feel fear and terror on a par with someone about to lose their very life.
And that is pure and unadulterated ‘drivel’.
As the old adage goes—and VERY ACCURATELY—....
You haven’t lived until you’ve almost died.
Last time I heard, the ‘facilitators’ at a ‘Diversity Training Workshop’ were not handing out blunt or edged weapons, let alone firearms, as ‘training aids’. [Note: However, there has been discussion about ‘body armor’. As in a ‘thick skin’ being a pre-requisite.]
I’ve been through ‘Diversity Training’ Workshops. And I’ve faced my imminent death, plummeting out of a black-night sky with a malfunctioning parachute.
There’s a VAST difference between the two, in terms of ‘terror’. AND, I might add, that you can face BOTH types with confidence, if you have the mental capacity and training.
Your point is well taken about LITERAL life and death.—A Man
Well. Good on you. At least my comment allowed for someone here to learn something useful.
But so is my point about METAPHORICAL life or death when it comes to exploring the human heart--hence the myths, the lessons from literature.—A Man
If only the vaunted American public education system actually taught such. Eh?
Too bad it hasn’t. And look what we got for it. I like the way C.S. Lewis put it....
We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honour and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful.
Now THERE’S a metaphor for you the masticate. Do you find it hard to ‘swallow’?
My point remains: you don’t have to be a man to know the LITERAL terror and valor of facing death or maiming in combat. Women do it. Humans do it in necessary and unnecessary wars alike. —A Man
Please tell me where I said you had to be A Man to know such? A woman confronted by a rapist in an alley CERTAINLY knows that form of “Literal terror”.
And maybe, if she had to foresight to pack a .32 ACP, she’ll display the valor necessary to defend herself.
I love the comment someone sent me recently....
Gun Control: The insane theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to a cop how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound.
But, as I pointed out earlier, you’re not going to find any such “LITERAL terror” in a ‘Diversity Training Workshop’. Unless the person experiencing the ‘terror’ has never REALLY faced physical danger, of the deadly persuasion, before.
Relevance to this discussion? The education of males, particularly, who may have soaked up a very restrictive notion of manhood to the exclusion of their larger personalities.—A Man
So. Tell me.....
....what is ‘restrictive’ about being prepared to defend yourself, your family, your friends or your country with your very life?
What was it Someone said, about 2000 years ago? Greater love hath no man than this. That a man lay down his life for his friends.
You think THIS idea is ‘restrictive’? That someone is willing to give up EVERYTHING for someone else? Why is that?
RE: The Achilles Think
Achilles is terrified of his own humanity, his own compassion for his enemies. (In fact, he was against the war until clever Odysseus talked him into it, as happens in a story before the story.) Achilles would rather die than face up to his deepest feelings about the whole thing. He exhibits in the end a valor of another--call it--spiritual kind.—A Man
Are you trying to tell me that men, of the sort you and others here seem to decry, are incapable of ‘spiritual valor’? That has got to be one of the most stupid statements I’ve heard in that thread.
I myself said nothing about going to any board meetings on Madison Avenue. You made ME a character in Tom Wolfe’s book. Go back and look at our posts.—A Man
You didn’t have to. I never said you did. Nor did I make YOU a ‘character’. If anyone did, YOU did it to yourself.
I held up a general garment, and you claim it is made to fit.
I offered that as a counter-argument to your ‘scared to death’ scenario about someone in what amounted to a ‘Diversity Training Workshop’. I thought your argument was foolish. And maybe that’s just because I have a ‘different’ perspective on what it’s like to be truly scared about facing death.
You seem to be somewhat ‘hung up’ on this business.
Why is that?
But your point is taken. I only hope you take mine (i.e. you don’t have to be a man . . .”—A Man
Thank you.
Yes. I (1) don’t care for the fact that the vaunted American public education system is failing to teach the children well and (2) am fully well aware that one can encounter death in many more places than the proverbial ‘field of battle’. A comrade-in-arms encountered it in his driveway, on his way into work: murdered, gunned down by a person we suspect to have been his wife’s lover, a special forces type. The guy was ‘good’ at it. Apparently a ‘silenced’ weapon. They could not trace it to him. The wife didn’t seem to be particularly ‘upset’ by the event.
There’s physical (animal) fear and emotional (human) fear. Both pertain to the “Gift” of being human.—A Man
And your point here is.......what?
That men, of my particular point-of-view, don’t experience both? Heh.
Look for it within: “Only the wisest and most courageous will search for it there.” That’s what Achilles does: he achieves the highest ancient Greek ideal: “Arete’”.—A Man
As if others don’t?
Thanks for being so ‘open-minded’.
Too many boys and girls don’t know this story. And many others worth their thinking and feeling about, including predominantly female-centric experiences, equally important.—A Man
As I’ve said before, I blame the vaunted American public education system for not teaching the children well.
And I think it a good idea that young American men are made more aware of American women....
....what they are capable of for good as well as for evil.
Just as young American women should be well educated about American men....
.....for good as well as for evil.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Know your ‘enemy’ and know yourself and in a hundred ‘battles’ you shall never suffer disaster.—Sun Tzu, The Art of War, mandatory reading at Benning School for Boys]
P.S. Before you go ‘off’ on a bent, understand THIS....
All women are not evil. Nor all men such. But there ARE a LOT of ‘evil’ people out there. It is wise for young men and young women to be well educated to recognize them in order to avoid personal disaster.
Education SHOULD be doing that. But it obviously has failed.
How do I say that? Look at the gang-crime today. Look at the teenage pregnancy today.
And I defy you to tell me I am wrong......
Next entry: Pipelining Discussions Previous entry: Of Hell, Satan and Politics-
Um..Your navigation bar does not work, just wanted to let you know so you can fix it. Other than that, great site!
on 06/05 at 02:00 PM -
Hey Chuck, your buddy Herb here. I’ve been thinking about you the last couple of days. Thinking specifically about how you use words like “enemy” and “conflict” to describe things like “liberals” and “political discourse.” Thinking about that time I schooled you on Obama’s birth certificate. Thinking about that time I invited you to put your money where your mouth is and you then accused ME of inciting violence.
Then I started thinking about James Von Brunn.
And I thought I would say “Thanks!” for being you, Chuck. You may be crazy, but at least you’re a coward.
on 06/13 at 11:51 AM -
TO: All
RE: Herb and “Cowards”This is hilarious!
Herb calls me a ‘coward’, but when I tried to reply to him by his alleged e-mail address....
....it gets returned as ‘undeliverable’.
We’re talking about REAL ‘cowardice’ with Herb, here.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]on 06/13 at 12:34 PM -
P.S. TO: Herb
Guess what you’re going to encounter the next time we cross paths at PJM......three guesses....first two don’t count.....
on 06/13 at 12:35 PM